Lean Out Podcast

Steps with Seema Desai

• Dawn Baker • Season 2 • Episode 4

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 34:55

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode, Dawn Baker talks with Seema Desai, a retired dentist and executive coach. Seema helps ​high-achieving, ambitious leaders go from stressed, overwhelmed, and frustrated to productive, effective, and fulfilled. She is the author of Connected: Discovering Your Inner Guides and the cohost of the podcast Happy and Human.

This conversation demonstrates the concept that work-life balance is a continuous process, and transformation most often happens in a stepwise manner. We discuss the concepts of identity values, both personal and family values, and also navigating relationships with two busy professionals. 

Check out Seema's...


Get in touch with Seema:

On the web www.drseemadesai.com
On Instagram @dr.seemadesai
Email hello@drseemadesai.com

Get in touch with Dawn:

Welcome to the lean out podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Don baker. Are you looking for a new approach to finding authentic and sustainable work-life balance? You've come to the right. Place. For inspiration. information. and a community. community. of like-minded. Professionals. Let's get to the show. Hello? Hello. Thanks for being here. Today, we'll be talking about a transformation of work-life balance through a series of small steps. As I discuss in the book, lean out my talks that I've given and other publications work-life balance as a continuous process, each of us has our own path with our own steps and timing. But before we get to the show, I have a favor to ask you. Could you please go leave a review for this podcast in the iTunes platform? Even if you don't use iTunes to listen to your podcasts, it would be very helpful if you could leave a review so that more people could find the podcast. More reviews, make the podcast more searchable. In order to do this, you go to the iTunes app. If you have an iPhone or you go to itunes.com for podcasts and you search for the name of this podcast. After you do that, you scroll to the bottom of the episodes and you click leave a review. Thanks so much. I'm excited to introduce my guest. Her name is Sima Dessai and I met her at the most recent white coat investor conference in February of 2024. It was a pleasure to speak with her and her husband about all things. Parenting and self-development and financial health. Sima is a retired dentist and an executive coach who empowers people to develop the inner peace that lives within. She is a self-described yoga purist. Uh, speaker and a workshop leader. Sima also co-hosts a podcast called happy and human, and she has published a book and a course. Sima gradually sculpted her work-life balance to include less clinical work as her family expanded. Eventually she made a difficult decision to leave dentistry and pivot to something completely different. And now she's feeling much more effective and fulfilled. In this episode, we discuss the concepts of identity values, both personal and family values, and also navigating relationships with two busy professionals. I hope you enjoy this conversation.

SD - Dawn

Seema Desai, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here, and I'd love it if you would introduce yourself for the audience, please.

SD - Seema

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. Like so many of the women and ambitious leaders on here, we wear so many hats. But 1 of my passions is as a transformational success coach to help people go from productive and busy and stressed to effective and fulfilled and really tapped into that sense of inner peace that we often find ourselves chasing, as we achieve more and more and more. Right? So I used to be a dentist. I've retired from that and really stepped into coaching, executive coaching, and just I'm loving every minute of of it and helping people this

SD - Dawn

So when did you retire from dentistry and make this switch to doing the coaching?

SD - Seema

20 19. I think it was, like, the summer of 20 19.

SD - Dawn

So tell me what prompted this change in your work life balance.

SD - Seema

Well, I think it was kind of 1 of those things. Like, we've we've had patients, right, that have had a chronic condition, and they've sort of just learned to move around with it or live with it. And and that was kind of how I felt about my life experience up until me deciding to shift out. It wasn't that there was anything really, quote, unquote, wrong in particular. I went from working full time to working 3 days a week and then 2 days a week because I'd had young kids, and my husband does a lot of shift work, and I wanted to be, you know, the 1 sort of mainly involved with raising our family. And so I think it was just more this uncomfortable truth that was hanging over my shoulder that it wasn't the amount of work that I was doing, and it wasn't the office that I was working with, and it wasn't the office manager. And it what like, I just there were moments where I truly loved what I did, but it wasn't it wasn't I just felt like I was missing the mark. And because I felt like I was missing the mark with it, it was spilling over into what kind of parenting, um, I was able to provide and what kind of self care and all of those things. I didn't know what else to do, but I was like, you know what? Being stuck doesn't feel good, and forcing my way to make it work is also not working. So I had no idea what I was gonna do. I had no idea if I was just gonna take a break and come back to it. I just knew that I needed to hit the pause button, if not the stop button.

SD - Dawn

It's really very similar to my path as well because I started out as an anesthesiologist working mostly full time because they were very short at the time when I started as an attending, but I was supposed to be 3 days a week. So it was, like, 3 or 4 days. So that was between 0.8 and full time FTE. And then when I had children, I gradually went down as well. I went down to to 2 days a week, and then slowly just kept carving away and figuring out, like, what do I want changed? What's going well? What's not going well? Is that the process that you went through as far as self examination to figure out what to do, or was there something else that you did to make the decision to change to what you're doing now?

SD - Seema

Yeah. I mean, if only I had had the self awareness to ask myself, like, what's working? What's not working? What what feels good? I didn't have those tools. And so I was just showing up frustrated and angry, and it was just honestly, it felt so icky that I just couldn't take it anymore. Part of my journey that I haven't shared yet on this podcast is, um, I had postpartum depression, and it was easier to shove it in a box and kind of forget about it and pretend it wasn't there, and try to, again, push through. Right? I've got everything. I have my baby who's happy and healthy, and I'm happy and healthy, and I have my husband and blah blah blah. And I think what helped me come out of that was yoga. I tell people all the time, yoga saved my life in in very, very, uh, a very real sense. And so when I when I developed that practice of yoga, at first, it was an escape, and then it became a passion, and I really enjoyed it. And, you know, us as overachievers, we like when we can see tangible progress. Like, we love the praise that the yoga teacher might give us, like, oh, beautiful extension or, oh, I see you're really improving. And so it became a very real passion and it still is. So when I stopped, I just I felt so icky and so just sick of falling short, that I was considering, like, maybe I'll just stop and get a yoga teacher certification because that was what I knew. And I there was a lot of guilt around that. Like, there's first of all, there's guilt that you have everything that you've worked so hard for, and, of course, I would I want. Right? I I want my babies. I love my husband. I have my health, all of those things. And to still feel like you're missing the mark, there's at least for me, there was a lot of guilt that it felt like I wasn't being grateful enough. And then there was the guilt of, like, who does that? Who who leaves medicine to, what, be a yoga teacher? Like, that's not a thing. Um, and so it just took a lot of support from my husband. My father-in-law was actually really instrumental in just sort of saying, you know what? Like, go for it. It's okay. It's okay. No one's no one's here to judge you. Just try it out. And so, in that process of finding a yoga teacher certification, the universe just kept shutting me down. For whatever reason, it wouldn't work, either the certificate that was the timings didn't work or the geography of it didn't work or whatever. And I finally found a place, and I had missed the registration deadline. And then they were like, hold on. Just come back next year. And I waited, and I came back the next year. And they were like, oh, we shut our program down because we wanted to revamp it and make it really authentic. We didn't want it to be this colonialized version of yoga that we're seeing all across America. Um, however, you can still be mentored by 1 of the the studio owner. Now the studio owner was actually also a coach, and he said, listen. If you're feeling stuck, the yoga will help you process the emotions. I'm happy to take you under my wing. But if you're really looking to unstick yourself, I would recommend coaching. that immediately, I shut down. I was like, who spends money on that? Like, how bad are you at living life that you'd need a coach? That was, I mean, literally my thought, which is hilarious now. I was, you know, scarcity mindset of, like, oh, but that's a huge investment, and I don't know. And la la la. My husband wasn't on board, because he didn't know what coaching was. Right? It's not a thing that I think now I I don't know. I'm I'm curious if you're finding, that coaching is a little bit more widely received especially within medicine now.

SD - Dawn

As I'm listening to you talk about this and your feelings around coaching and when you discovered it, I'm reminded of the way that I felt when I discovered it because I didn't really know anything about it. As a resident, I actually had a mentor whose husband did a little bit of work in the coaching space for corporate, and she had me go and talk to him. And I didn't realize at the time that what I was doing was being coached. And it was just a thing that she arranged for me, uh, because she knew that I was struggling. That was the only experience that I had had with it, and then I didn't hear about it until pretty much around the pandemic time, and that's when I feel like that people in the medical, uh, wellness arena started embracing coaching. So, yeah, I definitely had misgivings about it like you did and also certain opinions about, well, this is only for executives or this is only for people that are really, like, struggling and having a lot of problems in their life and are losers like you said. So

SD - Seema

Like, that's I mean, you said it spot on. I was just thinking to myself, I don't need help. Like, I look look. Look at all of these things I've achieved. I don't need help. You know? Anyway and so my experience with it was just sort of resistant at first. So I put it off, and I put it off, and I put it off. And then finally,, my yoga mentor was like, listen. It's about to be 20 19. I'm gonna do, like, a New Year's special, and I know you were considering this before. Do you wanna take advantage? And I by that time, it was just like the the discomfort and the I'm gonna put pain in quotes, but it was. It was emotional pain, had become so intolerable that I was like, I will I will do anything. The books aren't working. They were working until they weren't. Right? And so I just was like, I yeah. I get I mean, I trust you. You understand how I think and things because you've been mentoring me in in the space of yoga and honoring the principles of what truly yoga is all about. So let's give it a shot, and it changed my life. I'm so grateful that I leaned out and, you know, took a chance and invested in myself because I think as women, we don't see that as a high priority. And it my whole life changed. Everything about it, not overnight, but I stopped I just started seeing how much power I actually had in my hands, and I just didn't know it. I didn't know how to see it. So that was sort of my I was getting coaching and all of this stuff, and then I had a a little bit of a a rough experience around patient care. I was doing geriatrics at the time, and, there's specific, I guess, scenarios that occur when you're in geriatric medicine and you're providing mobile care. And I just was kind of getting the feeling that it was no longer something that I felt I could do in my fullest capacity and truly honor the trust that that really truly needs to exist between the patient and the provider, and, you know, the system has to support that. And so I left, and I I just I had no plan. But there I was, and then the pandemic happened and, uh, coaching school, the opportunity to, you know, become a certified coach landed in my lap, and the rest is history.

SD - Dawn

Was it hard to leave your patients, or was there any other, like, kinda hard part about that whole transition that was related to the business side

SD - Seema

I will say, first of all, that I was able to do this from a point of privilege. Um, I had my husband, you know, supporting me and financially as well. So, I just like to to recognize because there are so many of us who are the breadwinners, and maybe it looks a little different. Right? That journey out absolutely can happen, um, but it it happens differently. Right? So I just wanna preface this by saying I had that 1 privilege, the other privilege I had was I didn't own my own practice. I had, a PLLC, and I would contract work. And so I basically would contract with, a company that, you know, was owned by another dentist, and they would have contracts with various nursing homes and things like that. So I literally it was a plug and play situation. I just showed up. I used to carry around kinda dis it disgusted me then. It disgusts me now even. I had this transportable dental chair that I would just leave in the back of my SUV, and I would carry it around. And then if I needed to go grocery shopping, I'd have to think ahead and, like, like, pull it out and then kinda, like, wipe down the my car because it had been on the floor of nursing homes and so, um, there wasn't a logistic, like, I have employees or I need to do a lot of paperwork to exit out. None of that. There was not a contract that said I owed X amount of time or a non compete because I wasn't going into dentistry. I wasn't jumping into another position. I honestly don't even remember if there was a non compete because it just wasn't relevant.

SD - Dawn

Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And, you know, I just wanna point something out. When you describe this, this to me sounds like something where if you are entrenched in a partner type practice or, like, your own practice and you want to lean out, you would maybe be looking at the kind of scenario that you had as a way to gain some more freedom, but it's a continuum. And so you were on that continuum already there, and then your next move was to pivot to something completely different. That's totally

SD - Seema

Right. And I'd like to also, to that, add that I didn't start out that way. I mean, I was full time under contract with a very real noncompete. I was working 4 and a half days a week, and I, you know, all all of the things that come with, generally, dentistry, medicine, particularly family practice type situations. Um, I had all of that. And then I, to your point, just sort of shifted into something that was still private practice, but 3 days a week. And then when we moved cities, that's when I took the liberty of saying, alright. Well, I'm stopping because I'm about to have a baby, and I'm gonna choose to take this opportunity to stay home, um, until they're ready to, you know, go to Montessori school. And so it was when my son went back and it had been 2 years. We were in a different city, so everything had kinda shifted. And I sort of fell into geriatrics, um, just because I I was looking for a way to still keep up my skills without compromising the things that I discovered were actually of of value to me.

SD - Dawn

That's great. I share with a lot of clients and other people that I'm speaking to that everyone is different. And there is no judgment. We are all unique individuals, we have individual needs and individual values. And so, what your particular ideal work life life balance is. And and that changes over time too, but it's like it's going to be different than someone else's. And so you were paying attention and moving along that continuum as you go and paying attention to, how you felt. And then, you know, when when your situation that was part time and that was a little more had more freedom than when that got to be still not fulfilling, then you move to something else. So you don't have to take these huge steps. It doesn't have to be from, like, I am entrenched in this partnership noncompute you know, the job that everyone wants when they're out of training to being a yoga teacher or being a coach. It can be, this gradual progression.

SD - Seema

And it doesn't happen overnight because now you're talking about an identity shift. Right? So that can take a while to reconcile what that means to you, what that feels like to you. It's you know, forever I remember my first patient of dental school. I couldn't even I was so nervous. I was tripping over my words. I I couldn't even look at the patient in the eye, and I couldn't even refer to myself as doctor. When introducing myself to a patient, it was so hard. And, similarly, when I shifted out, um, or at least lessened that role of dentistry, it um, You know? It it takes time to release your grip on what you think other people need to see you as so that you can make room for what feels good, who you truly are in your most authentic sense.

SD - Dawn

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, it can be a long process, and it can be different for everyone because it's kind of like you're mourning the loss of a certain identity. And so just like with mourning the loss of a a loved 1, it takes different people a different amount of time to process that and to, um, deal with the changes that are associated. Tell me about what your life is like now and what you really like about it.

SD - Seema

You know, there's a sense of ease that comes with waking up and knowing that you truly are creating what it is that you want. And sometimes you think you want something and you create it, and you're like, oh, that doesn't feel good. Right? And so you just have data points that you're no longer judging yourself for, um, as harshly. Now I'm still, you know, still human, still an overachiever, still a perfectionist. And so, uh, yeah, it's shifting to entrepreneurship and shifting a very different type of wellness, uh, within within the space is it's just there is a lot of ease and, also, simultaneously, there's a lot of deep work that has to continually happen to make sure that I don't take my eye off the prize, that I'm not falling into scarcity mindset of what's not good enough or, you know, what could I do more of? And, uh, you know, it's all still there. The biggest difference now is I have awareness of when that I like to call them, like, lower energy thoughts and emotions come into play, um, because you can't without the awareness, you really can't do anything. Right? You just wind up getting stuck.

SD - Dawn

Mhmm. Yeah. So these are all very important mindset shifts that you've made and that, like, you acknowledge it's a continuous practice. What kind of things does your week entail? What would be a typical week for you as far as integrating your coaching work, your family life, and, also, you have a podcast called Happy and Human, so sharing content on that.

SD - Seema

Yeah. Well, I have found that my core core core values are, self mastery. Right? The so working on those things, physical, like, caring for my health and then time with my family, those are kind of the big rocks that I put into place, and so I have created, um, you know, for example, I know that what's important to me is to be present for my kids in the morning. So I won't schedule anything before 10 AM. That way, I can be present with them, and then I can go be present with myself. I wake up early, ideally, around 5, but, you know, here lately, it's been a little bit of a struggle. But either way, I'm up before my kids. I have some hot water. If my husband's home, we have just even if it's 10, 15 minutes, we have just some time together. And then we do the kid thing. We work out. Actually, we've started weight training. So we'll try to get our workouts in 3 days a week, and then if not, we'll get on the yoga mat together. And then we'll send the kids off. We'll go for a walk, get our steps in, come home, get cleaned up, and then I will come in and do what needs to be done in terms of meetings or content planning or, research for for guests and things that are gonna come on the podcast. And I found it's beneficial for me to recognize that what my choices are right now are gonna be very different than when my kids are older or when they've left. So it's very easy for me to look at, like, some people who live close to me here. Their kids are all grown up, and so they wake up and they're doing all of these things. And it's like, yeah. But I'm not there yet. And you know what? I don't wanna be there yet. So it's okay that my, workday is, quote, unquote, shortened, but it's an intentional 10 to 3. When my daughter comes home from school, I wanna make sure that I'm able to be present for her. And then, you know, because you've sort of planted those seeds of I'm here at in the mornings, I'm here in the evenings, then if, say, we're recording a podcast episode 1 evening or I need to step out and I'm going to a networking event or, you know, there's there's a little flex that needs to be allowed. I've put enough in the the trust bank, right, that relationship bank to where I don't feel guilty for shutting my office door or leaving the house and leaving my kids, just because I know I've done what I can to be present for them. So, hopefully, that makes a little bit of sense.

SD - Dawn

Yeah. It does. What I'm hearing is that you've identified your core values and that that informs boundaries that you make about your day to day time management, but then built into that is some flexibility. In order to have the flexibility, you are prioritizing certain things. So it goes back to prioritizing what you value. I think that's a great way to live. I love it. And your husband does critical care and does shift work, you said. So I'm sure that some of these days look different when if he's there in the morning with you, It's probably variable. But

SD - Seema

is so he's PD critical care. Um, and it it is all over the place, which is honestly a challenge because, I wanna spend time with him. He's just like, I love him to pieces, and back before when I was doing 2 days a week and the kids were, in Montessori school, I had a lot more free time. And so when he would come home and he'd wanna, like, go play golf, I would just be so angry and frustrated. Like, I've been waiting around for you. You know? Like, why why you wanna go play golf? And so now, um, to answer your question, there's the look ahead of the week, right, and understanding, like, okay. You're on service this week. That means that I'm going to be giant vat of this or a whatever. So we're working together. A giant vat of this or a whatever. So we're working together to make sure that the day to day stuff is is easier, things like dinner. And then, you know, he'll tell me ahead of time, like, hey. I see that you've got a podcast recording scheduled. I'm gonna go play golf that day if that's alright then, unless there's something that I that needs to happen around the house. And, you know, so it's it is a dance. It isn't I love how you said integration. It's not a perfect formula. Some days he's home, and he's home for a week at a time. And other days, he is working, you know, every other night for 3 or 4 nights, and there's other times where he's working, we call, like, regular people hours where he leaves at 7. He's back at, you know, 5 or 6 depending on how busy the unit is. But then I know I'm I'm picking up the slack there. And then I I just have to work to give myself grace, um, to, quote, unquote, not get as much done with my work.

SD - Dawn

Yeah.

SD - Seema

Yeah.

SD - Dawn

That is a very similar, week to week communication that I have to run with my husband as well. And I think that it's very important for people who have schedules that are variable, that aren't the same, that aren't the, quote, regular people hours like you said, because there are a lot of moving parts. And so you really have to focus on communication for everyone to get what they need

SD - Seema

yeah. We talk about this on the happy and human podcast we've all heard the phrase marriage is 50 50, a partnership is 50 50, and and it's just I found that that's not true for me. I feel like it's you're all in a hundred percent, and if both people are giving 100 percent in a way that's authentic, it's not taxing, then it becomes fun, right, then it becomes more of a dance, more of an integration. You know? It's a funny story. I actually posted about this recently where, um, what we have 1 electric car and 1 traditional car, and I um, used the electric car last, and I forgot to plug it in. And then he was supposed to go to work the next day, and we bought the car so that he could have auto drive so that the commute's easier. Right? And so he's sitting here, and he's just like, I can't take this to work because you didn't plug it in. Like, you didn't do the thing. And it was just that sort of experience would have derailed us when we first got married. It would have derailed us 5 years ago. We would have been angry and screaming at each other, and, you know, again, because we had put in so much into that relationship bank, you when you need to make a withdrawal, you're not you're not overdrafting.

SD - Dawn

Yeah. That's a really good, plug for, again, prioritizing what's the most important to you because you're filling up that bank account, like you

SD - Seema

Mhmm. Yeah.

SD - Dawn

Let's shift gears a little bit. As we're wrapping up, I want to know if there's anything that you know now that you wish you had known as the younger woman starting out in dentistry.

SD - Seema

That question always makes me have the same reaction, which is I am so glad that, you know, I got all the lessons I needed to learn when I needed to learn them because I was ready to learn them then and not a moment sooner. So I just like to remind myself out of compassion for myself, that it's okay that I didn't get these lessons. And what I would say to anyone out there, who is just starting out and even wherever you are, I would say it's gonna be okay. Trust yourself and in yourself. Pay to be in the room. Um, and what I mean by that is money is just energy. So when you shift that energy into pouring into your own self, you become the best version of yourself. And when you become the best version of yourself, it's like everything just becomes easier. It unlocks it. Doesn't have to be as hard as we can tend to make it. So when you when you invest in yourself, you you pay for mentorship. You pay for, um, I I don't know. Like, you and I met at WCI. Right? And and when you pay to be in those rooms where people are like minded, that's when you create meaningful connection, and that is what is just so fulfilling at the end of the day.

SD - Dawn

That's great advice. Where can people find you? What what's the best way for people to connect with you?

SD - Seema

So I'm pretty responsive on, email and on Instagram. So on Instagram, I'm at d r dot my name, Seema Desai. Um, you can find me at hello at doctor Seema Desai dot com. It's also my website. And if you click under resources, there's my book and the podcast and my common the chaos breath work course and all of the things. So I'm out there. If you're wanting to connect, I'm happy to do that.

SD - Dawn

Excellent. I love the resources too. Thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate this conversation today.

SD - Seema

Thank you so much for having me, Don.

Seamless journey really demonstrates how work-life balance is a practice, something you refine over and over. Here on my takeaways from our conversation. Number one. Leaning out can be gradual. It doesn't necessarily have to look like a full blown burnout situation and an abrupt pivot to something completely different. Sima was a full-time dentist in a very traditional looking practice who went part-time at first. And then changed to a more free agent type part-time situation all before leaving clinical medicine. She went step-by-step and she describes her personal transformation through coaching in the same way. At first, she was very skeptical. And then once she got into it, she noticed step-by-step changes in herself. Any of these steps could be the goal for another person. But remember that goals change as you adjust your new work-life balance. Number two. Along the lines of number one, don't compare your journey to others. Don't compare your work-life balance, your ideas of balance or definitions of success. We all have our own definitions based on our own personal needs, our wants and our values. And letting go of identities. As we shift roles during a lean out journey can be a long process. Some people are going to take longer than others. People want immediate changes. And I see. This constantly with coaching clients and when I speak with people and mentor people, But it's not usually how things work. So be patient and make sure to take it. Step-by-step. Number three. Build work-life balance boundaries around both your core values and the values of your family. If you don't know what your core values are or you aren't sure of your shared family values, then go right now to practice balance.com/get in touch and put your email address into the purple box. And you will get an exercise that helps you identify the values. SEMA knew that self-development family and health are central for her values and her family also shares these she and her husband prioritize time together to take walks, workout, and cook dinners. And this is when they have particular chunks of free time. Together. When one of the people needs to travel or has a very particularly intense work period, there are deposits in the relationship bank account as she puts it. So when things are a little more difficult, it buffers the situation and they're able to weather those times. Okay. I hope you found this conversation inspirational and helpful today. My parting question to you is can you identify one common value, both held and demonstrated in your family. Thanks for listening to the lean out podcast. If you find these conversations inspiring and useful, please forward them to a friend and also leave a review on iTunes or Spotify so that other people can find them easier. If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at my website, practice balanced.com, where you can subscribe to my newsletter and get updates regularly about new podcast episodes, blog posts, speaking, engagements, and coaching services. You can also support my work by buying my book, lean out a professional woman's guide to finding authentic work-life balance for yourself, a friend, family member, or coworker. Have a great day and we'll see you next time