Lean Out Podcast

Authenticity with Tracey O'Connell

• Dawn Baker • Season 2 • Episode 13

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In this episode, Dawn Baker talks with Tracey O'Connell. Tracey is a part-time teleradiologist, a coach, consultant, educator, and expressive writing facilitator. She has a special interest in what she calls the “messy middle” – helping people navigate difficult times and big feelings to find sustainable wellbeing and their most authentic selves.

We go deep into the thick of Tracey's lean-out journey, which really started in medical school and included a values mismatch at her first attending job out of residency. We delve into the details of how Tracey recovered from a difficult separation from her full-time radiology practice, and what it looks like to do expressive writing. 

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Get in touch with Tracey:

Get in touch with Dawn: 

Welcome to the lean out podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Don baker. Are you looking for a new approach to finding authentic and sustainable work-life balance? You've come to the right. Place. For inspiration. information. and a community. community. of like-minded. Professionals. Let's get to the show. Hello? Hello. Thanks for being here. While Memorial day is just passed and it's getting to be that time of year. When some of us, especially parents feel a shift in our work-life balance. Mainly because kids are out of school and it can throw you off kilter for sure. I'm not saying it's better or worse, it's just different schedule shift. And so do priorities and we have to get used to those changes. So I hope that's working out for you. And I hope the warm season is bringing you some joy. My guest today is a very interesting and special person. Someone I consider a friend. And someone I always learned from her name is Tracy. O'Connell. We met in a coaching mastermind group. When I first started out coaching a few years back and we've remained friends ever since. Tracy is a part-time teller radiologist, a coach. Consultant educator. And expressive writing facilitator. She has a special interest in what she calls the messy middle, helping people navigate difficult times and big feelings to find sustainable wellbeing and their most authentic selves. She's one of the most authentic people I have ever met. This interview flows more like a conversation, and you'll hear how after not feeling comfortable in many different environments, typical of the medical profession. And in particular radiology. Tracy has figured out a way to practice medicine and do the other things that bring her joy. She has excellent self knowledge and insight, and I know you'll be inspired by her story.

TO-Dawn

Gracie O'Connell, friend, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Can you introduce yourself and tell us about what your work life balance looks like right now?

TO-Tracey

Yes. Well, always fun spending time with you, Dawn. And, I love the theme of your podcast because it really does showcase and highlight what we hyperachievers have done since we've stopped hyperachieving. So I'm trained as a radiologist, a musculoskeletal. and I left a job about 7 years ago that really wasn't serving me mentally, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, and I'm not sure radiology honestly was ever meant to be for me. And that's a whole nother story. But when I left that job seven years ago, I didn't know exactly what I would be doing. I ended up getting credentialed to do teleradiology from home. And I still do that a few hours a day. Truth be told, I do it as little as possible, but I am grateful for the stable income that it provides and I'm fortunate to work for a practice that is not particularly busy and also not in a competitive area. So there's not a lot of pressure to read really fast or read faster than the. Team across town or compete for referrers. So that's been just really lovely that I've been able to find that. And meanwhile, all the years that I was really unhappy in my medical career, I had been not only in therapy, but constantly reading self help and. I was very distracted by all these other. Interests that had to do with maintaining sustainable wellbeing, which is funny because that's what I was trying to do, sustain my own wellbeing. And now that's become my main passion in ways that I help others, the tools that I've used, that have helped me maintain a connection with myself. my authenticity and also maintain my connection with others. My belonging has really become front and center in the way that I'm living my life.

TO-Dawn

Tell me about who you serve with the well being arm of what you do. Describe that a little bit more for us.

TO-Tracey

Well, it is most things that are not a pre laid path. It was an evolution. Uh, when I first had six months off between Ending my job and becoming credentialed to do teleradiology in my different states. I had this opportunity to take some courses locally, um, integrative health coach training courses and then a course that was called transform your health right to heal. And I've never been a writer. I did used to keep, I guess, sort of a diary slash journal that was mostly an opportunity for me to vent. And I was keeping one in my thirties. And as I approached 40, I found the journal. It was in my nightstand and I reread it. And it was very disturbing to me that nothing had changed in the inner dialogue I was having, the things that I had written 10 years prior. I could have written. 10 years later, because I was having the same lived experience, the same fears, the same anxieties, worries, frustrations. So that's the kind of writing I had done in the past. But what was wonderful about this course was that there were prompts. And each week we had a different type of writing that we were exposed to that gave us guided prompts to lead our responses and lead our writing journeys. More deliberately, instead of just venting or, free associating, it was free writing in a way that there was no rules. There were no rules about grammar or punctuation or sentence structure, and we were not sharing what we were writing with other people. It wasn't going to be published. It wasn't going to be scrutinized, but the prompts and the different types of writing included things like expressive writing, which is expressing emotions and writing about things that you haven't shared necessarily with other people, but like writing about the most significant emotional experience you've ever had in your life for 20 minutes a day. Four days a week in a row, just to see what comes up. Um, we modified that for, for the session that we were in. That was a 90 minute session, but there were things like transactional writing, writing letters to other people to finish unfinished business, writing letters of forgiveness, writing letters to ask, to be forgiven, um, things like, affirmative writing, writing about our strengths, writing, mindful writing, writing about. I am aware that, I have affection for, I feel awe when, things that bring us into the present moment, and a bunch of other types of legacy writing, writing for future generations to kind of reflect on what you've learned from your own experience, what would, you would want someone who didn't know you, a future relative who found the writing in the attic one day, to know and learn maybe from your lived experience, so anyway, it was really meaningful for me. to write in that way. And even though I'd spent many, many years in therapy and just been reading constant self help and constantly kind of, I'm an inspiration junkie. So I'm always looking for something to, charge me up and maintain like a level of emotional intensity that's positive. Um, I really found that the writing, and now I'm certified to teach this writing. I have found it to be. Incredibly helpful. I think. It's wonderful when we can do what you and I are doing, talking, with other people and having meaningful conversations. It's also invaluable therapies, wonderful. And being inspired and listening to a podcast that's inspiring or listening to a speaker or watching a video that's. inspiring can take you far, but maybe then you turn it off and then you're left with what am I going to do now with this? I've even found recently at conferences I've felt really motivated and inspired after hearing someone give a talk. And then I thought, yeah, without the writing, the writing actually allows with this formal structure allows me and others to hear conversations with ourselves, like two way conversations with ourselves. And so rather than thinking, oh, I'm getting this advice from someone else, it's almost like befriending that inner voice, deciphering the code of how we speak to ourselves, questioning, is that true? Where's that coming from? What part of me is saying that? And is that even relevant? Where did that come from? It's almost like, just a really meaningful way to get closer to yourself and learn to trust yourself, as opposed to other things that just keep you going when you're in survival mode. Does that make sense?

TO-Dawn

Yeah, and thank you so much for describing what the process is like for going through expressive writing because I'm sure a lot of people aren't really familiar with it. And there's a lot of crossovers with journaling, and I love journaling so much and definitely have recommended it to so many clients, but, um, hearing about this more formal process and some of the, what the prompts are like, I think It will be of interest to some of the people that are listening.

TO-Tracey

Feedback I get from people who now participate in these classes is that they were just as surprised as I've been to have these insights because. This type of writing calls upon the right brain and your creative brain, your originality brain. And it's a different part of the brain than what we use for speaking or even typing or writing. That's not, you know, we usually write freehand. Um, and so you can really only write, you can really only think as quickly as your hand can move across the page. And it's just, surprisingly powerful. I think most people are really dumbfounded as to how meaningful it was because there's always an activation barrier, it seems, to want to do the writing. And then once people do it, they're so glad they did. So yeah, I think journaling is also wonderful, but we can get stuck sometimes just on repeat, on a repeated state of mind of I'm still writing about this day after day, after day, after day. Which can be cathartic, but may not move you forward.

TO-Dawn

Yeah, like sometimes journaling stops. at the level of the thought dump and doesn't really move beyond that, whereas you could be benefiting from some other guidance. So let's go back to, before you took this expressive writing course that was really transformative for you, and you became an expressive writing guide, what was going on that led you to leave your job? Can you talk about that turning point, what it was that was happening at your traditional radiology job, the job that you thought was the be all end all, that made you want to transition into something different.

TO-Tracey

Well, it's such an interesting question because I've found myself. Answering this question, a lot over the past seven years and my response has changed, I think, as I have evolved and also see the past, see the people, see the environment through a different lens, in a nutshell, I really think that before I even knew about values and things we've learned in coach training, I really feel like there was just a values discrepancy between me and the life I was wanting for myself and the values of the practice in the group that I was working in. And even though I was working part time, I think I'm really glad I'm really proud of myself for decisions I made the 16 years that I worked in that practice to safeguard myself. In other words, I was making values led decisions without even knowing it, but I was not feeling proud of those decisions. I was feeling ashamed of those decisions because I was seen as not a team player or not all in, like, in other words, I was sort of leaning out. When your book hadn't even been written and also like not feeling though. Good about it. Right. Feeling bad about it. And so when I had been in medical school, you know, I originally had come to medical school to be a psychiatrist. And then I had a weird. Six week rotation where I felt like I was not capable of being in the space with the severity of the mental illness that I was exposed to. And so then I really didn't know what I was going to do. And I did radiology sort of as a, um, it sounds funny to say, but just kind of as I, well, uh, I'm not sure what else I'm going to do because I didn't enjoy any of the other rotations in third year. I felt overwhelmed, emotionally overwhelmed by all of them. And thought I need to have something that I can sustain I'm a highly sensitive person and I'm a deep empath. And so, while I think those qualities are make an excellent doctor. It's not sustainable. It wasn't sustainable for me. I would go to work and then I'd come home and need everyone to take care of me because I was so emotionally drained and overcome by human suffering. And so I thought radiology would be a way to compartmentalize and get away from that. And it sort of was except that I'm that person. And so being in the dark by myself for nine hours a day. Was very self destructive, I really value connection. I think that I was still seeking connection in environments that really weren't. conducive to that. And so it was very lonely. Over time, you know, I chose to work part time because I thought, I thought of myself as fragile. I thought of myself as like, as being delicate. And needing to be careful to take care of myself. Otherwise I might get depressed. Cause I got very depressed third year medical school when I thought I was going to be a psychiatrist and I didn't know what else to do and took some time off then, and then I was at 25 and then at 35 had an episode of depression where. I had three kids under the age of six and I'm trying to do it all. And it was just. Impossible, you know, and two of my kids were diagnosed with celiac disease and I'm thinking, how am I going to cook for them? And how am I going to cook? Cause I don't even like to cook and, and how am I going to keep working and do all the things. Also both of my parents have been married and divorced twice. And so I really didn't want that. I wanted a marriage that was going to last. And so those were those values that, that I took with me of how I want to show up. I want who I want to be for my kids, who I want to be for my partner and who I want to be for myself. And ultimately that job environment was just in constant conflict with that. And I kept making pleas for accommodations such as. Like why is the rotation suddenly switched from eight to five to seven to four because I that means I have to drive from my house 30 minutes I have to leave my house every day at 630 in the morning, and then my husband has to get all three kids ready for school by himself, because I don't want to hire a nanny to do that job for me. And it just. I was always seen as a problem, right? For the group, even though I fought for and stood up for and set boundaries before boundaries were like a term that we use so comfortably now, So anytime you weren't agreeable, you were just sort of seen as difficult. That was a real burden to bear. Ultimately, there was a bunch of changes going on in the group of switching hospitals and switching responsibilities, and that was a perfect, I felt, sign from the universe that I have to, this, I can't, it's only going to get worse, so I have to go now.

TO-Dawn

Love that you started out this explanation with, it has evolved over time, that it has changed over time, and that you look at it through a different lens. Because for people who are listening, who are in a lean out, journey right now, and they're in the beginning, and it just feels yucky, it feels awkward, and it feels like they're swimming against a tide. It gets better, and over time you become even and reflective and thankful, and you're talking about how you're proud of yourself. I just want to point that out to people that are listening, that You'll get to that point in the future if you're not there right now.

TO-Tracey

I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I was thinking, it's only in the recent past that I've actually been able to speak without getting really triggered about it, because I had so much bitterness and so much blame. Like I was so angry and I felt like it was other people's fault that I couldn't, like, that they were just nasty or they were just corrupt or greedy or cruel. While I could still make those arguments, I feel Like what you point out so well in your book, we all have different reasons for being, and if I'm the, my most generous interpretation of the way that our values differences were was just simply that, that, hey, we, we want different things out of our one wild and precious life. And hey, you all do you, you know, do you, but it's not going to work for me. and I have to be the one that takes action on that part rather than wishing that the system would change or wishing that everyone else would change. I was speaking with someone about this yesterday of that tension that we hold between feeling like almost in an activism sort of way of wanting to be a part of a solution when there's a problem. And then look, the energy cost, the resource cost to. Being in that, an environment that's not healthy for you and being able to weigh the overall like risks and benefits and even the sustainability of how long can I do this? And even though I didn't know what I was going to do once I left that job, I really didn't. I had no plan at that time, no vision of becoming a, a life coach or an expressive writing facilitator or talking to people about shame and shame resilience. I had No vision of that. All I knew was that this isn't working. And that was super scary, as you know, to venture out, when we've always been on prelaid paths.

TO-Dawn

Well, besides doing the expressive writing for yourself, what are other things that you personally did to navigate that uncertainty? How did you make it okay?

TO-Tracey

Well, that first summer, I live in North Carolina and it's always very hot here and humid in the summer. And I love to read. And so once I, there were, there were, Several months right where I kept trying to make things happen faster. I had signed up for a tele radiology company and they said it would take a few months to get credentialed and onboarded. So in my mind, that was like, Maybe two months. And so I kept checking and saying like, well, when is the credentialing coming in? And I was, you know, I had, I had gotten a severance package from the group where I left, which is a whole different story on the terms on which under which I left, but, but I was financially okay. So I wasn't in a panic. But also I was in a panic because I'm supposed to be doing something. I'm always doing something. This is really weird to not be doing something. And at that time, my oldest was like a senior in high school, I think. So, And my youngest was like in middle school. So I wasn't having the burdens that people with young kids have, as far as having a lot of other things vying for my attention. So for several months, I was trying to expedite the credentialing process. And then suddenly I realized, Oh my gosh, this is such a gift to have this downtime. And so I would, this is true. I would get up in the morning and I would put on my bathing suit and I would go outside. and read like most of the day and just sort of sweat and be gross. And I remember my brother coming to visit, and we were making dinner and I said, do I smell bad? And he's like, yeah, kind of, you know, I was just so in the moment and so not cognizant of getting dressed, getting ready, being professional, being, doing all the things I. Thought I was supposed to do. I was just surrendering and suddenly it just became this all everything I looked at was just awe inspiring. And I had a friend who is actually a friend from medical school who really does not lean out. She is a definitely lean in kind of person, but ironically had told me when this whole thing went down, she said, you know, this is going to be the best thing that's ever happened to you. And you just have to look out for signs. Not just from the universe, but just little things like any time you go to the mailbox. Is there something there of interest? Follow anything that is remotely interesting to you. Strike up a conversation with anyone that's remotely curious to you. And so it was just I started doing that. I just started being like, wow, is this going to be something cool? What's going to happen today? And, and looking around, noticing nature and I love flowers and growing things. And so I was doing a ton of that and just really investing in life and beauty and art. I don't do art, but I appreciate art. And so yeah, I think it was so uncomfortable at first, so uncomfortable that I couldn't even do it because of the anxiety And just the programming of how I'm supposed to be my hyper achiever personality the part of me that's a hyper achiever kept saying we're supposed to be doing something we're supposed to be doing something but these other parts were like hang on maybe we're okay maybe this just feels weird and uncomfortable but maybe we're actually safe and just like It was, it had to be experienced to believe it, you know, because I heard it from plenty of people or read about it or imagined it, but I honestly couldn't imagine it until I experienced it.

TO-Dawn

Every time I talk to you, I learn something and hearing you talk about sweating out in the garden, it's like catharsis and purification. The symbolism there is just mind boggling. I love, I love it so much.

TO-Tracey

Well,

TO-Dawn

could really write, you could write a whole book about this.

TO-Tracey

well, that's one of the reasons that we stay in touched on is cause I keep, you know, hoping to follow you in your footsteps and do write something and you keep me inspired and you keep. You keep me remembering these things from the past. The other thing that I would say that happened to me a lot was these overwhelming experiences of awe, especially listening to music, live music, going to concerts. I went to a ton of concerts that summer and over the next year or two. I remember going to see Jason Mraz or Brandi Carlile and just sobbing the entire concert. Not because I was sad, but because I felt so much. I felt so much beauty, like that collective effervescence that people talk about. Like, it was mystical. It was overwhelming, I think that these things that are a part of me that were so squelched and squashed for so long by that dominant hyperachieving part of me that, that just. suffocated all these other parts that make my life extraordinary and meaningful. And so I'm just so grateful.

TO-Dawn

Yeah. I'm so glad that you got back to this place where you really are your true authentic self. I have been talking to clients recently about the idea that most of the time in order to lean out, people need to cultivate some confidence and what are the true elements of confidence. And one of them, one big one is mental flexibility or emotional flexibility. And the way that I see that is being able to know that you're going to be okay if you feel all these feelings and feeling the feelings is going to help you grow and that we need to embrace all of the feelings that we have and they're all part of the journey. I love that your evolution in your lean out journey had these just really big feelings that you needed to go through. as part of it.

TO-Tracey

I'm just launching a course that's a combination of writing. And Brene Brown's training. Just about what you're talking about, about big feelings. The course is a. About reflective writing to move through shame into self assurance. And that's exactly what you just said. Self assurance. I even, I even looked this up. Like what's the difference between self confidence and self assurance? And it has something to do with confidence. It's about how we're going to present ourselves to others. But self assurance is about how we feel about ourselves and to be able to feel what you just said to be able to be in any emotion, any hard emotion. And as I've learned, not the emotions we have. It's not the feelings we have that are the problem. It's the feelings we have about our feelings. That's the problem. And so. So shame is most often, you know, I I'm not enough or I don't feel like I'm enough or I feel like I'm too much. It's a negative judgment of how we're feeling and being, and instead of thinking of that in such a negative way to be able to be more neutral and observing and like, yeah, I am a feeling being and I'm okay with that and I can be with that it's not a problem I need to fix, it's a strength for us to be able to sit with and be self assured with whatever comes our way. Right. And I know you've lived through a lot of hard things. I've lived through hard things. And there were many years where I had no self assurance. I had so much anxiety that it was always what, what's going to happen next. And am I, and am I going to survive it as opposed to the self assurance comes from, I think, creating a life that's really working with me and feels like it's working for me, which doesn't mean it's smooth, but I have the capacity to be with myself. To be with whatever happens and not have that fear of I'm not going to make it through this, but instead. everything is figureoutable,

TO-Dawn

thank you for explaining about self assurance because I'm actually working on a course too and it is all about confidence but there's this element that is related to emotions and self and then there are outward parts. I don't know when I'm going to get mine done. I'm really glad that you, are putting this out into the world. Can you tell us where we can find it and when it is taking place?

TO-Tracey

Sure, well, there's a lot of information about it on my website, which is my name, Tracy O'Connell M. D. dot com. It starts June 4th, which is actually not very far away. I don't know when this podcast is going to air, but,

TO-Dawn

Neither do I.

TO-Tracey

but, you know, it doesn't really matter because here's the other thing I've learned, and I know you write about this, and also in conversations you and I have had, but I just, I wasn't willing to hustle for it. I have let things percolate long enough and then get a little bit of momentum to be able to say, yeah, I'm, I really want to do this. And also, I don't have the entrepreneurial spirit to be like, Taking out ads and, you know, offering it to everyone

TO-Dawn

hundred percent.

TO-Tracey

or doing the social media thing like it just I have social media accounts and I can have fun with it. But when it stops being fun, I can't do it because it makes me feel gross. And also, like, I'm not for everyone. Bet I do think that. I have confidence in, in you, in myself and the ability to escort people in a safe way through things that are difficult. And I think that's the way it always should be. In fact, this is where I differ with Brene Brown's philosophy about vulnerability. She talks a lot about vulnerability being defined as a feeling of uncertainty. Risk and emotional exposure, but she also talks about how we have to be careful who we share with, right? But my problem with that is that's not vulnerability if you've made it safe to share with someone else because that by by definition vulnerability is feeling very scared and uncertain and unsafe. And there is risk involved and you are going to show emotions and maybe someone's going to be like, holy crap, I can't deal with you, or. Wow, that's oversharing or you're too much, right? But, but the messy middle is when we need each other. And so I just feel rather than having it be like, Oh, let me come on and say, like, I've got it all figured out. Like, I want to hear more about the bumps and bruises and tragedies and hardships that people go through and how they get through them. Even when they don't know what's coming next, like, that's where I like to be. Even though, ironically, I spent so much of my life trying to be promised that everything was going to be okay and turn out right. So I just really have deep empathy for the messy middle. And I want to be able to be with people in that place and not pathologize that, right? Rather than running from that I just have chosen to embrace it and. Walk beside others and hopefully guide and normalize rather than pathologize that lived human experience. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not a diagnosis. You're not effed up. Like it's just so human. And this is what it's like to be alive.

TO-Dawn

Yeah. Well, this has been just a pleasure as always. Is there any parting advice you would give people, both women and men who are feeling burnt out and stuck and like they want to get off that treadmill, but don't really know how?

TO-Tracey

yeah, it's so hard. Like even as a coach, it's hard because I know we're not supposed to give people advice, but all I want to do is like scream from the rooftops, lean out, lean out, lean out. We are creative, curious beings and I don't believe we're supposed to just do one thing. forever. I think we're supposed to do a lot of things. There's that Joseph Campbell quote, that's like, if the path you're on is clear, you're probably on someone else's. And, I think that's so true it takes work, the same kind of work you put into building that career that you now are afraid to leave. It takes a similar effort to, but the investment is different and it will reward you forever. And it won't feel, it'll, it'll give payback with dividends and feel A totally different sensation than like, oh, I achieved this thing and now yay. And then now what do I have to do? It's, it's more long lasting. It lasts forever. It's not a temporary high. It's a piece. And so I think it's worth it,

TO-Dawn

yeah. Definitely worth it. I would agree. Tracy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story

TO-Tracey

thank you so much for having me, Dawn, and it's always such a joy.

I just love having conversations with Tracy. We've had times when we've talked for hours. I have a pension for real meaty conversations. And Tracy definitely loves that as well. Be sure to catch a previous conversation we had on Tracy's YouTube channel, all about leaning out. I'll link to that in the show notes. Here are my takeaways from our conversation. Number one. When you're in the messy uncomfortable part of a lean out journey, it can feel horrible. Remember that you will get through this. You can withstand the temporary awkwardness and negativity. Over time, you will get to a place of perspective and evenness again. How much time is individual, but have faith that it will happen. Number two. If you're struggling, feeling stuck or going through a difficult transition. Open your mind to the possibility of out of the box strategies for feeling better. Tracy said when she quit her full-time radiology practice. She became open to everything. To what she called the universe is queues. Some of the things she did were doing absolutely nothing productive in her own garden. Sweating it out. Experiencing live music. And taking an expressive writing class. These are not typical things you hear from people. When you ask about how they made themselves feel better during a difficult time. In the book lean out. I talk about how cultivating awe alone time and outside time. Can also be helpful during transitions. So think what's a unique thing. You really want to try, go and try it. Trying something new also helps with confidence. So you'll get an extra benefit there. Number three. There's only so long, you can sustain being immersed in a situation that does not allow you to be your authentic self. Tracy now realizes the difficulties she experienced working as a full-time radiology attending in a busy private practice. We're really symptoms of a values mismatch. She was not allowing herself to be herself. It's awesome that she found a way to practice radiology. Now that sustains her while also incorporates other very important aspects of her personality into her work-life balance. These opportunities are out there. You just have to be looking for them, be open and be patient. Today. My question for you is do you feel like in your current work-life balance, you can be fully your authentic self. Why, or why not? Thanks for listening to the lean out podcast. If you find these conversations inspiring and useful, please forward them to a friend and also leave a review on iTunes or Spotify so that other people can find them easier. If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at my website, practice balanced.com, where you can subscribe to my newsletter and get updates regularly about new podcast episodes, blog posts, speaking, engagements, and coaching services. You can also support my work by buying my book, lean out a professional woman's guide to finding authentic work-life balance for yourself, a friend, family member, or coworker. Have a great day and we'll see you next time